Becoming Piccolo

James Marsters on how his version of Piccolo will compare to the source material

by Eric Goldman

US, March 25, 2009 - James Marsters is very familiar to television fans for his great work in numerous villainous roles - nost notably as Spike on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, along with this work as Braniac on Smallville and Captain John Hart on Torchwood. And in a few weeks, Marsters will be seen on the big screen playing another iconic villain - Piccolo, in Dragonball: Evolotion.

IGN recently caught with Marsters to find out what his version of Piccolo is like and how he compares to what fans of other incarnations of Dragonball are familiar with. As we learned, Marsters is quite knowledgeable on the subject...

(Note: Check out the second part of this interview is here.

IGN: Dragonball is a property that obviously has a huge following. When you signed on to the film, did you have any idea how large the fandom was?

Marsters: Oh, I'm one of them, yeah! I've seen every episode of Dragon Ball Z, about two thirds of GT, and about half of Dragon Ball -- only because Dragon Ball, to me anyway, was hard to find. But yeah, I knmow it very well. I have a son who's now into Jimi Hendrix more than Dragon Ball -- he's 13. He grew up watching it and it led to many good conversations, actually, between he and I. We have all of the little toys, and I always play Piccolo whenever we play with the action figures.

IGN: So when this part was even a possibility, I would assume both you and your son were excited.

Marsters: Very much. It was the first role that he cared about at all. And that's normal - kids care if you're there for Christmas. They care if you're going to feed them on time. But finally, I got a role that he was really like, "Dad, that's something I want to watch!" I play villains a lot and I remember one time I was playing a time agent, and I was telling my son, "Oh, dude. I've got swords. I've got guns. I've got this wrist strap. I can travel through time." And he goes, "Dad, do you win?" And I said, "What?" He goes, "Do you win at the end? Do you win or lose?" I said, "Well, I'm the villain. I lose." He goes, "Well... OK. Whatever."

IGN: You knew Piccolo very well going in. What is the take on him like in the film versus what most people know from Dragon Ball Z and other source material?

Marsters: This character is nothing like you're going to recognize from Dragon Ball Z because this is a story that happens before Dragon Ball Z. In the actual source material that we were adapting, we were only dealing with Dragon Ball. In Dragon Ball, Lord Piccolo is a very old, kind of shriveled Namic. The green guy who has to walk with a walking stick, he's so old. And at the very end of the season, when he finally fights little Goku - and Goku in the manga is only 7 years old - he throws off his coat and it's actually kind of surprising he has a body left at all. So, my kind of template to do this Piccolo was, "Let's make him as old as possible." We don't want to make him as decrepit as the manga because he is the only villain for this part of the story of Goku, so we should make him maybe a little more powerful. But let's not give the audience the young Piccolo yet, because in the story, Lord Piccolo comes back to Earth to get the Dragonballs to wish himself young and then take over the Earth. And if we started Piccolo young, there would be no reason for him to get the Dragonballs in the first place.

IGN: I'm very surprised talking to you about your knowledge of the source material. I'd assume some of your costars might have been a lot more unfamiliar with it all. Did anyone ever come to you for some advice?

Marsters: [Laughs] I think that if any of them didn't know the source material going into the project, they certainly started reading it and watching it to prepare for the shoot because I didn't really get the sense that anyone was behind the ball. We didn't really talk about the plotline in Dragon Ball Z. There's enough plotline to be talking baout in Dragon Ball. But I didn't start talking to them about Vegeta or Bojack and all of that - or Buu. [Laughs] I just kept my mouth shut about that because that's just too complex.

IGN: Fans are always concerned when there's an adaptation that it holds true to or respects the source material. As a fan yourself, can you speak to that?

Marsters: Well, that's the thing, man. I think that we have made an artistic risk because we have decided to be very respectful of the source material. I think Akira Toriyama - I hope, I haven't talked to him about it - but I suspect he would be pleased that we didn't start this movie with Dragon Ball Z. That the first shot of our hero is not blond Goku firing a massive energy blast and wiping a mountain out. That would be very cool, but that's not the beginning of the story. The beginning of the story, for the manga, is a 7 year old kid fighting midgets. He starts it way more on a smaller level and builds it up. And then by the time that Goku is that massive guy with the blond hair, then we're more invested in him. And so, we have decided not to do Dragon Ball Z, but to do Dragon Ball.

Instead of having Goku as a 7 year old fighting midgets, we take him at 17, just on his 18th birthday, so thematically, we're in the same ball park, but we get to push it a little more towards Z. But still doing justice to this character of Goku and where he starts. Remember in the first Spider-Man movie, everyone was like, "Where are all the special effects? Where is all the big stuff?" And Sam Raimi was like, "We've got to start this dude at the beginning. This is what we're doing." And I think it would have bee easier money if we would have just blown it out with Dragon Ball Z right from the beginning. But I don't think that would have been as true to the story and to the source material. I'm kind of proud that we've taken the risk in trusting the audience and that they'll want to see the beginning of this character. In that way, when he is more massive, it'll be way cooler.

So I don't know, man. People that only know Dragon Ball Z and only want Dragon Ball Z, they're going to have to get used to this. But people that really know the material, they're going to be well pleased.

IGN: You obviiously have experience with makeup and prosthetics. How did this experience compare?

Marsters: Oh, man... The first time we did it, it took 14 hours. It was really mainly me being really specific about wanting to look older. They got all the pieces on fairly quickly. I forget how many there were, but there was something like 10 different pieces that made up the look. But it was the painting of them, where I kept going, "No, that's not old enough! More here, more there." And by the end of it, the makeup artist was so mad at me, he just hit me. But I didn't want to be young. I wanted to be as decrepit as possible. But we got it down to four hours. We were shooting 12 to 14 hours a day, and the I had another six [hours] to get in and out. So I had pretty long days.

IGN: Did you do much fight training for the film?

Marsters: Oh, yeah. there was a point at which I think Jim Wong, the director, kind of figured out that I was showing off for my girlfriend. Because every time he asked me to do some kind of insane wirework, I'd be like, "Oh, yeah. Let's do it!" And so by the end of it, we were about at the last shot and I was just getting kicked in the face, actually, like about 14 times in a row. And I realized, "I'm not going to get a stunt man... this is the last day. We're almost at the end of this. And I'm doing all my own stunts. This is very cool." Jim just has a very calm way of taking you one day at a time and making it seem like not such a deal. Not making you look at the whole mountain, but just take one step at a time. So yeah, we did train - we trained with the 8711, which is the fight crew that did 300, did the Bourne films. They do just a whole log of good action movies. We went down to their facility here in Los Angeles for a month before we went to Durango, Mexico and trained there. Got nice and sore. And then went up to Durango, and Durango was a 1400 foot elevation. So that was a whole new level of getting fit. I passed out, dude. The first day we were training, they were running me pretty hard because we'd done well in L.A. and I just toppled right over. Just saw stars and was out. But after about 10 days, you acclimatize and your hemoglovin gets higher and you can wake back up.

James Marsters: From Spike to Brainiac

Marsters discusses his iconic television roles, including Buffy, Smallville and Torchwood.

by Eric Goldman

US, March 25, 2009 I recently spoke to James Marsters about his role as the villain Piccolo in the upcoming film Dragonball: Evolution You can read Marsters thoughts on the role (whose source material he's very familiar with) above.

In this second part of my conversation with Marsters, we turned to his impressive television work. Marsters discussed his recurring roles on Smallville and Torchwood, and whether we might see those characters - Brainiac and Captain John Hart - again. We also talked about his most popular role, as Spike on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Marsters gives his thoughts on what it was that made the character so iconic.

IGN: It's been funny on Smallville this season, because Brainiac has been a prescence, but you haven't been a presence unfortunately.

Marsters: [Laughs] They're sick of paying me so much money. They were very generous about offering me some money up front and something told me, "Yes, we're going to work with you James for a good amount of time..." But if you notice, it's been like that a lot. They talk about the character, but... It's a good group of people, but I think that may be over.

James Marsters as Brainiac in Smallville

IGN: Ah, so you don't think there's much of a possibility of returning?

Marsters: You know what, who knows? That series just seems to be immortal. It's done so well. So if the future is long, I'm certainly open to it. If they need me, I'd love to come say hi to everybody. But at the same time, they may not need me. They're very imaginative about how they do things.

IGN: The last time they had your charcacter, in some form, they sent him off to the future to become Brainiac 5 - the good character from the Legion of the Superheroes.

Marsters: Oh, cool!

IGN: Yeah, it seemed like there was a door there for you to come back in a very different way.

Marsters: That's cool! [Laughs]

IGN: [Laughs] I might be throwing you a curve ball here, but would that be something that would be fun for you, to play such a different take on Brainiac?

Marsters: Oh yeh. I think that would be wonderful. I would also like to go back and be evil for them too. It's fun to be eviil! It's fun to play a robot who doesn't really care and who's only pretending to. But it would be fun to play a robot who actually did care at the same time...

IGN: You've played a lot of villains, but you rarely play exactly the same kind of villain.

Marsters: No, not at all. And as a matter of fact, I just played Buzz Aldrin. I'm doing Buzz Aldrin in a TV-Movie called Moonshot for BBC and History Channel. That was fabulous, because he's a very complex character. He'll still deck you of you offend him. He's like 77... Check him on YouTube. There's a dude who followed him around going, "You never went to the moon! You're a liar!" And Buzz is like, "Shut up, leave me alone." "Liar!" And he just turns around and BAM, decks the guy. He's 77 years old! That was really fun. And then I played a cowboy who is ridden with guilt and heroic, so I am branching out. But yeah, villians, you have to admit, are fun. Anyone who plays them can't deny that.

Marsters as Captian John Hart in Torchwood.

IGN: I also wanted to ask you about Torchwood, which has quite a following. The new season is a very short miniseries, but have you talked to them about returning down the line?

Marsters: They know that I would come at any time they would like. They are so fun to work with. I had such a blast, both playing the role and hanging out with the cast. And also hanging out in Cardiff. The combination almost feels like a vacation. So yeah, I've extended my open invitation and I would love to come back. I can't move to Cardiff, but I would live to come and keep doing guest spots and stuff. But yeah, with a five-episode arc, John isn't in it. I don't know why such a popular series gets cut down to five [episodes]. But in the English world, series often only go three years. Doctor Who and Eastenders are about the only examples of something that doesn't get cut. I don't know what's up with the BBC. "Yeah, great show. Everyone's watching it. The whole world loves it. Cancel it." [Laughs] What the hell? But they have different rules, you know? They're probably doing it exactly right. I love that show. I hope it stays on air for awhile.

IGN: So I have to out myself as a huge Buffy and Angel fan.

Marsters: Right on. Me too. I didn't write it. I didn't produce it. I didn't direct it, so I can say, "That was a good show!" I just stood on tape.

IGN: Your character clearly went through some incredible changes through the years, and you got to play him through very different incarnations. Looking back, is there a period of Spike that you enjoyed playing more than others or was particularly fun to play?

Marsters: Definitely the beginning. All the real evil stuff was the most fun. As soon as he fell in love with Buffy, it was all about pain. And by that piont, I was really internalizing the character and it was fairly method for me, so I was really fairly depressed. And the he gets his soul and goes insane... [Sighs] That was... I mean, I'm proud of the acting, and I didn't make my cast members have to deal with me. But just on a personal level, I was feeling pretty low... chasing rats in the basement. Because basically, I was having to just dredge up every single thing I felt guilty about and then flagellate myself with it to bring myself closer to Spike. Because Spike got his soul and he was having to revisit all the murders that he did and that's just not a healthy thing to do to yourself. I don't think any psychologist would say that's a good thing. Really effective as an actor, but that's why they say acting is necessarily healthy. But yeah, when it was just chasing teenagers and biting them, that was fun. [Laughs]

IGN: Personally, I felt like Spike got revitalised by moving to Angel that last year. What was that like for you? It's the same character and you'd worked with David [Boreanaz] and knew some of the people, but at the same time, it was a very different dynamic. Did that give you a new energy?

MarstersBig time. Big time. It was almost like getting back to the original Spike. The only big difference was that he wasn't really eating people anymore. But he still didn't really care about too many people. He was still a snark. But yeah, I got back to the fun of the character. It was kimd of like... Have you ever been dating that girlfriend and you're really into her and she's just not that into you and you just can't get away and you can't get away, and then finally, something happens and you're torn away and you're free? It's kind of like that. You're kind of liberated from your own love in that way.

Marsters in his Spike days

IGN: What do you think it was about the character that resonated so much, and continues to, with the fans?

Marsters: I think it was a happy accident, actually. The thing was, was that Joss [Whedon] was really uncomfortable with Spike's success. He wanted to write a show about vampires getting killed, not vampires that we would care about. he wanted vampires to be a stand in for all of the problems that you have growing up. The builles, the bad teachers, whatever it is. But the satisfying thing at the end of all the episodes is you kill the damn vampire. There is a reason that they're so ugly when they fight. We're just not supposed to be drawn to them. And he got talked into the character of Angel by his partner David [Greenwalt], and then the character of Angel just took off. And then he had another character of Spike, which wasn't designed to be romantic, but kind of turned out that way. And at that point, he's just like, "Goddammit my show is being taken away from me! Thematically, it's crumbling beneath my feet. So I am going to make sure that I keep Spike in control." So immediately, when he decided not to kill me off, he put me in a wheelchair. So basically, you can see that Spike gets muzzled from that point on. And I can completely understand why he did that. He's trying to protect his theme, which is basically a modern day Hamlet, if I can be really self-important about it. Or Catcher in the Rye.

How do you get between being a kid and being an adult without becoming totally disillusioned and giving up? How do you open your eyes to how messed up the world is without just hiding? So I respected him for protecting that theme, but the interesting thing that happened was that he was writing a show about outsiders - characters that weren't in the mainstream and who were kind of outcasts. And it called out in the audience to everyone who ever felt like an outcast, which is basically everybody. But he didn't realize that he was creating an uber-outcast in Spike. In a gang of outcasts, I was the outcast. And so I don't think he planned it that way, but I think that partly explains why the character was potent in that way. It's weird how that can happen, you know?

IGN: You get to a point where you have a sect of fandom who'd like Buffy and Spike to end up together as a happy couple. What did you think about that?

Marsters: I think it's possible. And I can understand that... I think I played a good love with Sarah [Michelle Gellar]. [Laughs] We did some good scenes together and I think we both understood what the deal was. It think that is definitely possible, although by the time Spike is mature enough for her, I wonder how old she would be. By the time he's finally ready to be a full on good boyfriend...

IGN [Laughs] He'll show up on her doorstep when she's 90.

Marsters: Yeah, exactly. [speaks in Spike's British accent] "I'm ready! I'm finally ready! I've figured it out, Buffy! I'm a man. I'm finally a man."

IGN: Fans can't help but hope to see these characters in live-action again someday. Do you think it's just too unlikely at this point, or is it a never say never scenario?

Marsters: I think you never want to say never. Joss came to me a few years ago and I'd actually written a story and it almost kinda happened. But the thing is Buffy has always been an uphill battle. It's always been swimming upstream. And unfortunately, trying to talk people into a Buffy project, especially one that doesn't include Buffy, is very difficult.But who knows? I told Joss that I would prefer to stop thinking about filming Spike in seven years, because I'm aging and Spike's not. That's one of the coolest things about being a vampire, is you don't age. [Laughs] That's the cool part. So that's my only concern is that I'd be talked into something and ruin the character. I don't want to do that.

IGN: We'd heard there was talk of doing a straight-to-DVD movie or something. Was that the project you and Joss were talking about?

Marsters: Yeah. I had an idea where Spike loses the girl, gets beaten by the monster, but wins anyway... only because he gets a new pair shoes. He wins! That's an inside joke, because for like six years, I had the same pair of boots. They wouldn't give me any new shoes, and I finaly couldn't even fight in them anymore, because the heels were all coming off.

IGN: I'm sure a fan would love to have those!

Marsters: Yeah, I don't know who got them! Someone got them.